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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
juanorez
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In David Zinman's recording of the 'Eroica' (Arte Nova), he adds an additional repeat, altering the normal form:

A (first half of Scherzo) A A' (second half) A' Trio A A' [A'] <
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
pplayer44
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I am going to give it a listen as soon as I finished Mozart's concerto for violin and concerto. I don't recall I'd ever liked Zinman's 'Eroica', and haven't listened to it for quite a while. But, what the hell, since we are all paralyzed by the sleet here. Have you ever checked with Abbado's new one on DG? I assume they used the same version.

Nick
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
juanorez
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4ax.com:

Sounds like it's one of those things Beethoven crossed out late in the compositional process, but Zinman thought good enough to play with (a la Gardiner in the intro to Beethoven's 7/i). I don't recall reading anything about a repeat here, but I do know that Beethoven contemplated somewhere along the line what I like to call a 'double- round scherzo' for the 'Eroica': Scherzo - Trio - Scherzo - Trio - Scherzo'.

I'll scrounge up a copy of the Barenreiter and post what I find here (if nobody beats me to the punch.)
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
Roger E. Moore
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That was definitely true of the 5th symphony, and you hear the work done both ways. Nowadays it seems as likely you'll hear ABABA instead of the ABA I heard exclusively in my younger days. But Jonathan Del Mar eventually felt the evidence for the ABA form was stronger than that for the ABABA version: http://www.britac.ac.uk/news/review/02-99b/24- delmar.html. He calls the double repeat 'an appendage (the extra repeat in the scherzo) which had recently become almost 'politically correct', and therefore something of a thorn in the flesh of those musicians who were convinced it was wrong but lacked the evidence to substantiate their instinct.'

I have never heard of any evidence for the Eroica being contemplated in an ABABA form, but what Eric is talking about here is not that, but whether the second part of the A section ought to be repeated. I don't have the Del Mar edition myself, but in the Eulenberg, instead of the usual da capo marking after the trio, the entire A section is printed out again, without a repeat of A'. I would suggest that Beethoven may have suppressed the repeat to maximize the most surprising detail in the return of the scherzo: that is, the switch to 2/2 meter in bars 381-384. Hearing this once would be a real shock if you're not expecting it; hearing it twice that way lessens the sense of surprise.
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
Dom
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I did check
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
AdultaWebcams
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You are right, I also checked it immediately after Zinman. Gee, it's really interesting!

Nick
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
juanorez
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I've stated here my feelings on this before: in my mind's ear (i.e., nothing having to do with any performances out there in the real world), the ABABA' scherzo movement comes off better formally and dramatically when the repeat is taken in 5/iv. If not fourth movement repeat is not taken, the ABA scherzo works just fine. Many musicians and many here will no doubt disagree with me.

Yes, I know. I just threw that in as an aside which may or may not have been part of the rationale behind Zinman's double-post-trio-A'.

True. All editions I've seen have this as well.

Had the same thought yesterday glancing at the score.
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
bgneub
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I've found a CD on the website of the Polish label CD Accord:
http://www.cdaccord.com.pl/album.php?acd=075&lang=en

The three distributors they list all present problems
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
ManBearPig
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My personal feeling is that the alla breve 'surprise' is also an intellectual provocation, one which Beethoven doesn't follow through
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
Jiggs
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The last Accord CD I couldn't find at all the usual places (including all you mention) was finally found at Amazon France. I could even log in with my regular id and password.

Regards, Jeff Burton
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Posted 1 Year, 6 Months ago
orphia nay
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Thanks for the lead
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