FI 66 ?

Hi,

Can someone help me finding out how to play the beginning of the right hand on the fantasy impromptu op. 66 by chopin?

I finally got the left hand working right. This is very hard for me since my left pinky (5th finger) didn't grow right and is very small and low on my hand. So I have to turn my hand alot on this.

But now the right hand... I can't seem to get it right. I think this is a populair piece so there must be lots of people here who can help me.

Okay ... my fault. I just need some help on the timing of the little notes. I just can't seem to get the right melodie on with the notes I'm reading on paper Any tips on how to tackle this one?

Hi Mr. Kuik:

3 against 4 is critical to this piece. The way I was taught to learn this is to use the rhythm like when you say 'why did-he come to-day' and patting your hand on your knees or on a table thus: R&L, R, L, R, L, R. The start of each 3 against 4 is always with hands together. After practising this for a while, try playing the notes on the piano alternating hands in this fashion. You can rough out the pattern on the piano slowly, but eventually your brain will have to jump to another sort of gestalt stage in the Fantasie-Impromptu because it goes at such break-neck speed. You will eventually cease to think in the 'why did he...' mode and will concentrate on beginning the 3's on 4 together and let your hands space the notes out from finger memory. The result of the hands playing slightly out of sync. at this tempo is the tremendous rush of music coming from the piano creating the illusion that you are going even faster. It is an extremely fun piece to play and you will just impress the hell out of people.

Good luck!

Hi Floris,

you may have a look at section II.25 of Chuan's http://members.aol.com/Mccc8888/chapter1.htm Among other advices about the FI he also has one for the 3 vs. 4 timing.

Or did we all go wrong and you have some problems with the RH itself?

Hi again,

in the archives I found the following question from you:

Unfortunately, nobody referred to that question in the thread. The '6' above the 'E' means that 6 8th-notes have to be played in the same time you normally would play 4, or in other words 3 8ths played as a triplet against 4 16ths in normal speed. I don't know for sure, but I think the edition you have is not conform to the 'note-setting rules'. Usually the numbers for triplets etc. are written above/below the bar connecting the eights and not above/below the notes heads.

Having never been a teacher, I usually leave these threads alone but I'm going to make an exception. This piece is rather quick, but not really very difficult. I find that the way to deal with these timing problems is to listen to a good recording of the piece and get the 'sound' you are after fixed in your mind. Your hands generally do a remarkable job of complying with what you have in your head. YOu might try just listening to a few measures and then try to duplicate them. I also totally disagree with this 'hands separate' philosophy that is often touted here. I believe that a piece like this can only be learned at full speed and with both hands simultaneously. You may have to take small pieces, perhaps only one measure at a time, but I believe that's the best and possibly only way to learn fast pieces - especially those with odd timing like this.

Well, I don't know about that, Gerry. It pretty damned advanced to play full tilt. It's one of the most physical pieces I have ever played. Not virtuosic, but not for intermediates.

Before we get too carried away with the proper timing of 3 against 4, etc. I must point out that if you are unfamiliar with this sort of rhythm, the Fantasie-Impromptu is a poor place to start learning it.

The reason I say this is that by the time you get the feel of 3 on 4 in the F.I., it's time to start forgetting about it. The Fantasie-Impromptu is so fast when played properly the left/right rhythm becomes a blur. That's the whole point. You'll never get to the proper speed worrying too much about the rhythm and no one will care how accurate it is anyway since it is unintelligible at that speed (an alla-breve allegro with sixteenth notes).

You need to lay out the L/R rhythm in the beginning just to get the fingerings worked out, but then you have to start thinking in terms of just evenly jamming all those notes into each beat. The right and left hands will come together at the beginning of each beat (at half-note = 84!) and the rest of the notes just have to be scrunched in as evenly as possible.

I would recommend practicing this piece three ways each day (this is how I did it):

1. Hands alone, focusing on playing the arpeggios (LH) and melody (RH) evenly. Try to play four complete measures each time...this will aid in memorization, which is absolutely essential in this piece.

2. Hands together, slowly with laborious attention to your 3 against 4 rhythm. This is the hard part.

3. [after 1 and 2 are coming along] Hands together, but thinking in terms of the hands playing together at the beginning of each beat, ignoring the rhythm, and at an increasingly faster pace day to day. You'll find that the faster you play, the easier it will be to abandon thoughts of the rhythm. Your metronome will come in handy here.

Even if #3 is sounding fairly good and the pace is getting near full speed, contunue to practice #1 and #2 to keep it even and crisp.

Hope this helps!

Don

Chopin wrote an etude for this. Trois Novelles Etudes No 1. It's Andantino and very beautiful and minor. It's not long and might help as a start.

Brian

brian challenges of one exist w/i other - both likely far out of OP's reach. (imo) best wishes! (agreed, that is a lovely little work - all three can be)

Oh, I thought the 'think system' died out with the 'Music Man'.. What a crock.