High Tension Low Tension Scale

<< It's been clear since I've watched the posts here that a Yamaha truck ran over Larry's faithful dog when he was a child (or something equally as traumatic). >>

You haven't been paying close enough attention to his posts, Don. The problem with saying anything that someone doesn't want to hear is that the 'shields' get activated and 'phasers' are locked and loaded. Larry's posts are in complete agreement with mine as to where Yamaha fits in the food chain, so I tend to view them as balanced and reasonable. That is to say, it is a very nice piano. But Larry's view, my view, and the Piano Book view all agree as to Yamaha's stature in the industry. When Yamaha first brought the S-400 to a

with it. I played it for long enough to develop an appreciation for it. Then I heard the price. Once you know the targeted audience and take market comparables into consideration, a different type of comparative analysis takes place. So basically, taking a C series piano and representing it as superior or even equivalent to a true high end piano creates responses from us that may give you the impression that we do not give them any respect at all. This is not the case. I have been to several all Yamaha sales as a hired gun, and I started my piano sales career selling Yamaha pianos. They are quite nice instruments. I can sell them with a good conscience because I can represent them for what they are in the marketplace. But being quite nice does not make you a Bechstein, Bosendorfer, Steinway, or even a really decent Baldwin artist grand. The design and engineering compromises in the C series starts them out at a disadvantage. The upgrades in the S series gets them closer to the ideal, but then they are up against years of experience in precision hand craftsmanship, and while they can get close, it's still no cigar. I'm sure your C-3 is a very nice piano. Enjoy it. Just don't be offended when Larry or I suggest that it isn't a top echelon piano.

<< Anxious to follow this thread. >>

I can wax eloquent on this particular aspect of scale design, but Ron's post was a troll. Trust me, he's one of my best friends and I therefore suffer from

Nay,nay my goodest friend. I am genuinely on a quest, to have a clear detailed explanation and understanding, such as that which Don the RPT offered regarding the Samick Technological Dream a.k.a. the Tone Collector. Your concise, but limited (and somewhat flippant) answer, was the beginning of the journey, for me. I have a keen inquisitive curiosity as to the finer points of high vs low tension, and hope to recieve information from those whom take me seriously.

If I may poke my nose in here,... Yamaha pianos are a pet peeve of mine, and I do recognize that it is subjective. Is it the weight of the strings and the tension, or perhaps also the shape of the hammers. I understand that the felts on the hammers of a Yamaha are more rounded, thereby making contact with the string over a longer section of the string, thus exciting more harmonics. I seem to remember a piano tech telling me that by shaving the felts of a Yamaha so that they only contact a short piece of the string, he can make it sound like a Steinway, or 'closer to' a Steinway in terms of overtones. The story is that the rich overtones are more pleasing to the Eastern 'ear' and so the pianos are voiced that way. To my distinctively Western ear, however, it sets my teeth on edge and makes my spine crawl. Maybe for Rock and Roll that's a good thing, but I can't stand it for classical music. Again, maybe it's just a matter of taste, or what one's ear becomes accustomed to. For instance, if we went back to a Bach tempered scale, music would would horribly dissonant to just about everybody. As the French say, 'Each to his/her own 'goup.''

Lots of good info in here, Dave. What are your thoughts on the Kawai uprights? The grands? I don't want to get into the brand comparison game, because I don't know enough about the Yamahas to formulate an opinion, other than that they are too bright for my taste. I had the chance recently, to play several different Kawais; uprights and all sizes of grands. They felt very nice... The action was (for lack of a better adjective) silky. Very smooth and even, as far as I could tell. What long-term problems, if any, are germane to the Kawai? I know that the Kawais are probably not an upper echelon piano, but they sure seemed nice... As much as I like the grands, I'm trying to be realistic with space and monetary considerations. How well do Kawais in general, stand the test of time?

Thanks,

That would be 'gout'. A chacun son gout, is the expression. To each his own taste.

Merci, Mark. ...

<<What are your thoughts on the Kawai uprights? >>

They make some very nice uprights and they make some inexpensive models that I do not care for.

<< The grands? >>

Same as above.

<< I don't want to get into the brand comparison game, because I don't know enough about the Yamahas to formulate an opinion, other than that they are too bright for my taste. I had the chance recently, to play several different Kawais; uprights and all sizes of grands. They felt very nice... The action was (for lack of a better adjective) silky. Very smooth and even, as far as I could tell. >>

I do not have a strong preference one way or another for Yamaha versus Kawai versus any of their siblings (like Boston). If you were considering inexpensive versions of each, then I would also broaden your search to include Samick, Young Chang and all their decal variants. Choose what you like. I've played many Asian brands, many models, many different categories, and the best way to describe my attitude towards most of them (except the cheapies) is benign but not necessarily enthusiastic.

The danger in asking someone like me what I prefer is that you will end up with recommendations that may be more expensive than you intended a piano purchase to be. This is not because I am rich and can afford them myself, or that I play so well that only the finest will do. It has to do with roughly 28 years of industry experience and background knowledge that has made me extremely persnickety. Plus, as a musician, I respond to touch and tone in a very dramatic fashion, and my playing prowess increases logarithmically with better quality pianos.

<< What long-term problems, if any, are germane to the Kawai? I know that the Kawais are probably not an upper echelon piano, but they sure seemed nice... >>

Nice pianos that, if taken care of properly, will last as long as you need them to last.

Cool. The upright that I'm looking at is in the $6,500 range. As far as I can tell, it's middle-of-the-road. There are some console-type pianos that are, in my opinion, flat-out ugly.

I played a couple of Young Changs. They were okay, but they wouldn't be my first choice, and I would be apprehensive of them. That may be sheer bias on my part though, and no real reflection on their quality or lack thereof.

Well, after wrestling music out of my old upright, just about anything will sound great. <G> My instructor has a 5'7' Steinway, which is a nice piano, but for whatever reason, I'm intimidated by it. Like, I would have a hard time crankin' out boogie woogie on it... I had the chance to play a HUGE Baldwin grand at a church, about a month ago, and THAT was awesome! The acoustics of the sanctuary and the piano were perfect for each other. (Too bad I was the one playing, because it would have really sounded good if a real pianist would have been there...) <G>

Thank you. I appreciate the advice. I'm probably going to go ahead and purchase the K-30. http://kawaius.com/k30v2.htm The sound, the price, the look, and the feel all seem to be a nice fit.

Frank, in that price range, check out the Petrof and used Schimmel uprights, also.

Before you buy, you owe it to yourself to try a 52' Wm Knabe (a Samick product)

A former baldwin Dealer friend of mine, had the 52' Knabe side by side on his floor with a similar Yamaha, and was astonished by the Wm Knabe. Don't take my word for it, go try one.

If I see any, I will. I wish there were more piano dealers around here... There's one in Franklin, Tennessee, (Kawai dealer) and another in Nashville, I think. (Brentwood?) Anyway, it will be a few weeks before I make the purchase, so in the meantime, I may seek out that other dealer. Thanks.