How long for tone to die-away?

I was talking to a piano salesman in a store yesterday and he was saying that to judge a pianos quality check how long it takes a loud note to die-away to where it is almost inaudible. Now I have never hear this before. I came home and measured my piano (old Yamaha) and found that the bass string sing for 18 seconds, the middle for 12 seconds and the top end about 6 seconds.

My question is, are these number average or in line with a quality piano or is this all baloney?

Anna Kovanich asks:

<< I was talking to a piano salesman in a store yesterday and he was saying that to judge a pianos quality check how long it takes a loud note to die-away to where it is almost inaudible. Now I have never hear this before. I came home and measured my piano (old Yamaha) and found that the bass string sing for 18 seconds, the middle for 12 seconds and the top end about 6 seconds.

My question is, are these number average or in line with a quality piano or is this all baloney? >>

I see that Rick Clark gave you a very good answer, Anna. However, in general, the longer the decay rate (how long it sustains) the better that you can use this percussion instrument to 'orchestrate' your music more effectively. Something else usually inherent in pianos with longer decay rates is that the natural string resonances and overtones are much more plentiful (especially noticeable with the damper pedal down), the ability to play down to a whisper is increased (because the most minute thump of the hammer gets a string to speak) and quite often, a greater dynamic range is present (although this last element is not always the case).

I realize that this response may add to the confusion, but to answer your question, I do not believe that there is any sort of standard by which to measure decay rate. You will certainly know a piano where it is too short

Your numbers are about right for a Yamaha, tho this can depend on the model, age, tuning, etc. For the better pianos, the sustain in the bass should be over 25 seconds, although in order to be quantitative, you have to more clearly define when the sound 'ends'. You might set this limit at a certain db or 1/e (log) of original sound, since a set db would give different sustain depending on how loud you initially played the note. But if you play each sound to the same loudness, at a moderately loud level, your numbers sound about right. In concert grands, the sustain can be as much as twice what you measured. C. C. Chang

for the Yamaha s08 synth piano sound, the left most base note (b) lasts only 10 secs.

is other digitals similarly short?

does anyone know why?

Xah
http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html

I understand Rick's good answer. What about my 12s and 6s numbers for the middle and top? My definition of the end is when it gets to the point where I need to listen hard to hear it. Not very scientific I know.

Anna

Yamaha makes everything from spinets, and 4'9' 'grands' to 9' grand pianos. Saying these numbers are 'about right for a Yamaha' is nonsense.

Let's see how long a Steinway 'S' can sustain.

Probably because of the polyphony involved. If you play a bunch of notes with the sustain pedal down, each of those notes are going to have to be sustained. If the player hits too many notes before the others stop, the oldest note will be forced to drop off. If the note has decayed naturally, then it won't sound as bad as if the note was suddenly cut off.

This is purely a guess. There is some education behind it, but it is still a guess.

You're new around here (or you've been lurking). Either way, welcome aboard to the board.

Gary

I'm sorry I gave few details. My piano, the Yamaha is a baby grand, I think it is just five feet long. I thought about going to my piano store and playing all the pianos they have to compare but to be honest I get embarrassed sounding pianos in a store.

Also my tuner is quiet right now and said he would cut me a good deal on restringing so I was tempted but do not know if it really needs it or if he needs the work. A lot of the strings are rusty and probably the originals - about 30 years old.

Anna

I just tried this on a Yamaha C-7, not a 'better piano' by your definition. I played the lowest 'C' at a resonably level, I'd call it

Thanks Gary.

Can anyone say how long does their leftmost key (A) sound on their digital piano?

I suppose the reason has to do with polyphony too. By having realistically long decay, it makes the limitation of polyphony in electronic keyboard very apparent. 10 years ago the standard is 16-polyphony. Today it's 64. Still, i'm surprised the bass sound last not even half the time of real pianos.

this is an apparent flaw of digitals. On an acoustic, one can hold down the sustain pedal and bang away to feel the room jangle. On a digital, first the speakers start to distort because of the loudness, and the sound is puny and washed away. (usually a filter kicks in to quickly kill old notes when the polyphony is exceeded)

I think polyphony is merely a processor limitation. Why can't the manufactures throw in a faster CPUs and triple the polyphony & decay so that digitals can face acoustic squarely? Perhaps throw in a few hundred dollars more on the price. But i don't think i've seen such a digital. I think some models today has 128 polyphony. Now that's more that 88 piano keys, but i don't know if such has decay duration like acoustic-pianos, and i don't know if one can perform the above sustain-down scenario without notes being washed away.

Xah
http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html

Yes. It's a toaster oven pretending to be a piano......

Larry Fletcher Dealer/technician

Doing the work of three men.....Larry, Curly, & Moe