Kawai ES1 vs Yamaha P80 - my thoughts

So it sounds like you haven't had much if any experience with the p80.

The sound of an instrument is subjective.

This alone puts the P80 ahead of it. The P80 feels like a 'real' instrument.

What weight? The P80 is 37lbs. How much is the ES1's?

THEY DID! It's called a P200.

Then decide on the P80 for the better action.

To reiterate, I don't have much experience with digital instruments of any sort. This is practically my first experience purchasing an instrument. I want it to be a good one. I've been lurking for a long time, and since I got a chance to try a new model, I thought I'd give my fellow lurkers a heads up, as well as solicit some opinions from the less clueless.

The P200 really has no role in the selection process. It costs twice as much, weighs three times more, and has a bunch of features that make absolutely no sense to me. However, it is nice to know what features are common in the high- and low-end models. In this sense, the P80 has its P200, and the ES1 has the Kawai MP9000 (another hulking beast that looks like it could launch nuclear strikes).

Other keyboards in the same class as the P80 (Korg SP-100, Roland RD- 100) simply don't measure up. The ES1 is the first I've seen that offers a serious alternative to the P80. Yeah, the action is a little light, but some acoustic pianos have light action too. Like the sound, it's a matter of personal preference, and any new keyboard will require some getting used to.

As for weight, the P80 is 37 pounds, and the ES1 is just over 40. Honestly, I'm a wimp and have trouble carrying either of these. But I don't think the 3 or 4 pounds makes much of a difference. And the built-in speakers means not having to drag along a cheap set for small rooms or put up with headphones.

If any P80 owners out there have some spare time, it'd be great if you gave this keyboard a try and let me know what you think. Or if you have some tips on what to look for or listen to, please let me know. In any case I'll be giving both keyboards another try.

-Hazelrah

Before you buy.

You've obviously have made up your mind. Good luck.

[snip]

I don't know if it is a fluke, but the local Guitar Center franchise is selling a P200 for the same price as they are selling a P-80 - $999.00.

Gary (don't know if that one is a floor model, though) Rimar

Regarding your request for tips on what to listen for...

I own a Kawai MP9000. While it seems like an _otherwise_ well made instrument, I find that four notes in the 5th C-C octave produce either a painfully loud attack or harsh harmonics (on the Grand Piano settings - the very reason I bought it).

It at first was masked by my use of headphones, but when I finally hooked it up to a good sound system I heard the problems. I've heard them with two sets of amps and speakers. I've played these notes on real grands but didn't hear any harsh tones. (I'm trying to rule out hearing loss.)

Finally, I went back to the store and played the floor model. A salesperson and a customer both grimaced when they heard the bad notes and agreed that there was a problem.

I've contacted Kawai America but they don't seem to care.

So, my recommendation to you is that you test a piano using a sound system similar to what you will use when you get it home. Play the entire board, but especially play this octave. If you hear any problems, determine if you can live with them or if they are really abrasive, like mine.

Good luck!

Regards,

Corey J. Motel

Before you buy.

I'm probably going to buy a p-80 in the next month or so. I am also considering a MP1900, but I'm not sure the cost difference is worth it. But I'm mainly leaning toward the p80 because Kawai seems like one of those lame companies to deal with. Seems like you can only find them an 'Kawai' piano dealers and not at music equipment stores like Guitar Center. Seems like a stupid thing, but if you have ever owned an instrument that was hard to find service centers or dealers, it can be a pain.

I don't like those notes, too. I have circumvented the problem a bit by making my own setup. I use split, at E2 I think (the E before the bad notes), low region is Concert Grand, upper is Studio grand. Then I reduced the high mids a bit with the equalizer and reduced the reverb. Sounds much better IMO.

Bye, Christof

On 24 Oct 2000 12:51:04 +0200, Christof Pflumm

Christof:

Thank you very much for your suggestion. I'll give it a try.

I'm curious. How is Kawai technical support where you live?

Regards,

Corey J. Motel

I don't know. I sent the german support a mail once about that annoying sound, and they said something like 'we can't hear that'. Well, I think that there is no cheap possibility to correct it (the samples are ROM), so perhaps they just tried to deny it.

Bye, Christof

Sorry, mp9000

I've tried them all except for the mp9000. I liked the Yamaha best of all of them by far. My main concern is realistic feel and sound of the grand piano. The Yamaha has a really stiff feel that to me feels very close to their concert grand when it's brand new.

I could really relax and play different dynamics on the yamaha. Other digital pianos never did that for me.

The Kawai may be just as good or better. And it may offer more sounds options. However the cost difference and weight and size difference is a big one.

And the Kawai doesn't have an internal recorder. I'm looking forward to discreetly putting on the recorder during gigs, then storing away solos for later review.

The service thing is important to me, too.

One more thing. Yes it would be nice to think that if I buy this piano, I will play it for 10 years, but I know that's not realistic. I can get a P80 for a great price. Then 3 years from now, I won't feel so bad about wanting to sell it and upgrade whatever new cool digital stage piano is on the market at that time. There will be something cooler than the mp9000 out in a few years. I can accept the p80 for what it is. I might expect too much if I paid twice that for the mp9000.

I got good advice years ago that's hard to follow but it's true. Don't fall in love with your instruments. Buy low, sell high, and don't feel bad when they go. That way when you buy a keyboard for $2,500 that's only worth $750 in five years, you won't feel so bad.

On 24 Oct 2000 18:29:26 +0200, Christof Pflumm

The U.S. support twosome I've dealt with claimed that I was the first to voice a complaint regarding this problem. Perhaps. But now that I've found more people who have heard the sour tones, I'm confident that a problem truely exists, as opposed to it being due to my imagination or a hearing problem.

So the flash updates that they keep releasing are truely just OS updates and not sample updates as well?

Thanks again.

Regards,

Corey J. Motel