Lyon ?

I know the name is recognized for Harps. My freind has a grand, about 5'8', from the early part of the 20th century. He has a receipt from the previous owner, a piano teacher, who bought the piano in 1911. She purchased it at the local Jeweler in a small Wisconsin town, not far from Chicago. In Larry Fine's book it says 'Lyon and Healy also made pianos from 1880 to 1930, as well as other musical instruments...' Upon a recent visit to Chicago, I talked to a guy in the Fandrich shop who said the Lyon & Healy name was used on pianos made by Everett. I assume this was after 1930. He offered to look it up in the Pierce Atlas, but I didn't have the serial number at hand. I remember that the name Lyon & Healy and a Lion's head are cast into the plate. During a recent rebuild, my freind said his tech substantiated the previous owner's claim that the piano was 'made by Steinway,' saying that the rebuilder found a feature during his work that is particular to that brand. I wonder what it was. My guess is that this connection comes from the two companies both being part of CBS Musical Instrument Division and later Steinway Musical Properties, Inc. during the 1970's, as stated in Fine's book. The rebuilder could have been trying to use this connection to inflate the potential value of the instrument. Is there anyone who has any experience or opinions on the quality of Lyon & Healy grands from the early part of the 1900s? Were manufacturers cooperating at that time in terms of design or manufacturing, or were they all competing independently. My intention is not to go back to my freind, the owner, to take the wind out his sails or something like that. Personally, I find the sound of the instrument to be quite pleasant. I also don't think he got ripped off by a dishonest rebuilder. I'm just wondering if the experts have ever run across this make and could give me an opinion this instrument would stack up to the other American pianos of this era in terms of sound and quality.

The fact that CBS bought the Lyon & Healy name and the Steinway name both during the 70s would have nothing to do with a piano built before 1911.

Of course. That way your friend would pay him a lot more to rebuild it. As far as I know, Steinway had nothing to do with the building of Lyon & Healy pianos any more than they were involved in building Gulbransen organs, another name CBS owned. And prior to CBS, there was no connection at all that I know of.

Does Ford help Chevy design their cars? Think about it.

Someone was shoveling bovine plops at your friend, and the person he bought it from as well. Keep your pants held up when you go visit.

It wouldn't matter. He's heard what he wanted to hear. Anything you say to the contrary will just tick him off.

Larry Fletcher Pianos Inc Atlanta GA Dealer/technician

Doing the work of three men.....Larry, Curly, & Moe Want to visit another piano related messageboard? Go to the piano discussion group on my website:
Http://www.pianosinc.net

Larry,

Thanks, I appreciate your response.

You wrote

No, of course not, but Chevy, Buick and Olds sure have a lot to do with one another even though one might be led to beleive they are different because of the names. Did you ever hear about the stink people made when they bought Buicks in the 80's that had 'Chevy' engines? The Buick assembly line built in some 'Chevy Blue'-painted engine blocks and quite a few proud Buick owners felt cheated. But, back on the subject of pianos (by the way, which one is Steinway? Ford or Chevy?) I would assume the plate on the Lyon & Healy I described suggests that it was cast by that company, but I could imagine they would have looked at, bought or copied a successful scale design from a bigger piano company and hey, maybe that was how things were done back then. How could I know, except by asking?

That's exactly what I'm doing, thinking about this made me curious enough to ask the rmmp if anyone else has seen a L&H grand. I suppose it must be a very rare brand indeed, judging from the response.

The rebuilder probably chomped at the opportunity to tell him what he wanted to hear, even though to his credit, I think he at first recommended the purchase of a new Korean piano in favor of rebuilding. The truth is, my freind paid $500 for the piano and another $3,500 for the rebuild in 1994, so he probably knows deep down it's not really 'Made by Steinway'. As to the owner: my freind saw a 1954 newspaper ad clipped by the lady who sold him the piano in 1970 that said 'Lyon & Healy, made by one of America's leading manufacturers' (I suppose those were the Everett days) and my freind simply engaged in wishful thinking.

So, it was to good to be true, but I'd like to rephrase my question. I'm not familiar with the old pianos of American manufacture and would like to know if you or the other folks here think a Lyon & Healy would compare to a Baldwin, Chickering, Knabe, Everett, etc.. from that era. Are any of these old pianos really worth rebuilding? Are they really nicer than new pianos in the lower price range (Samick, Young Chang)? Is new always better than old, size of course being equal?

Thanks,

You imagine there is only one reason people are not responding. Bad reasoning. Lyon & healy was a major retailer from Chicago. They put their brand name on all kinds of instruments made by others. I remember a Lyon & Healy piano store in my local mega mall (1500 miles from Chicago) in the 1970's. They sold loads of medium-medium low quality pianos with their name on them. However, the 70's was a bad quality era in general for American pianos- it doesn't reflect on what your friend has, which might be quite good. Which is to say that Everett was a good piano in 1911, along with many other brands. It was a good era in general for American pianos. The best, actually. Too bad age takes it's toll. You've really got to pay through the nose for new pianos of that quality.

Regards,

Rick Clark

Rick, I have a Cunningham upright, called a 'Matchless Cunningham Harmonic No. 5,' and it was manufactured in 1917. I haven't heard much about Cunningham pianos or how they stack up to other brands of pianos, but all of the keys play, and it sounds WONDERFUL! It's 55' tall, so I think it has a nice, long soundboard. My piano instructor has a Schaeffer baby grand, (5'7', I think...) and I really can't tell the difference in sound or volume between the two. The action on the Schaeffer is, of course, much nicer, and my piano is in desperate need of tuning...

Best Regards,

I've seen various Lyon & Healy pianos from the early 20th century. They also marketed their pianos under the names of Washburn and Majestic.

The examples I've seen were average quality and nothing to get excited about. The pianos were actually built by Packard Piano Co., Ft. Wayne, Indiana and M. Schulz Company, 614 N. Carpenter St., Chicago, Ill. Steinway did not build stencil pianos for anyone.

Were they grands? This one is from 1911, when L&H 'made pianos' according to the 'Piano Book'. That makes sense to me. But I'll bet that L&H manufactured this piano at the time when they were still building instruments themselves. The name is not just steciled on the fallboard, but also on the cast-iron plate along with a lions-head moulding.

OTOH, there are cast iron nameplates and appliques (badges) which can be attached to the piano harp after casting. The whole thing gets painted over and it looks like one solid iron piece, but it isn't. Some 'generic' makers leave a window or indentation in the harp where another nameplate can be set in, making it all flush.

One way to get an indication of original quality on an old American grand is to measure the thickness of the inner and outer rims. The thicker the better. Also, finding a Wessel, Nickel, & Gross action on the inside is good.

Regards,

Rick Clark

Regards,

Rick Clark

Evard,

In the piano business, the term stencil is not a reference to the decal on the fallboard. It simply means that a piano was manufactured for a retailer under their own trade name. In cases where the orders were in great enough numbers, plates could be cast with any name or logo that was required.

Possibly you could contact Lyon & Healy and ask if they have any records available from the early 20th century that might help you with your quest.

I don't think it has that, but where would it say? Is there a nameplate on the action frame somewhere?

Thanks,

Would a new Boston be a stencil then? Thanks for the info, pianoguy.