M H price question

Trying to educate myself. Local dealer with Mason & Hamlin model BBSE (7', ebony. Located serial number on internet and confirmed dealer's statement that it was manufactured between 1981-1985. Assuming, generously assuming, sales rep's statement instrument is in great condition, how appropriate is the $19,000 asking price?

thanks, ronnie

I can't help you with pricing on a piano that old, but I highly recommend that you read the comments about the history of M&H in the 4th edition of 'The Piano Book', by Larry Fine before buying a M&H of that era. This book is frequently available in libraries.

During 1981-1985 the M&H brand was owned by the Aeolian Piano Company. Pianos of that era should NEVER be confused with the new M&H made during the current ownership of M&H by the Piano Disc Company (Burgett brothers) or even from the brief ownership by Premier.

Personally, you would have to pay me to take a M&H piano from the 1981-1985 era so to me $19,000 is absurd. YMMV.

Recently, a 5' 8' grand piano, dated 1989, that was entirely built from Mason and Hamlin parts by another company, when Mason and Hamlin was in bankruptcy, was sold on Ebay for about $6,500. You can verify this doing an Ebay search. I emailed the seller who told me he had it since it was new, watched it being put together, and, after wrestling with a decision for six months, decided he wanted a new Yamaha c3 Grand instead, as he can get a discount from cost.

He said every tuner he has every used has said 'That is really a nice piano'. This piano looks like it has had some typical family wear, with dings here and there. I thought this was a pretty good deal. Check out Mason Hamlin in the complete item section and you may get a goot idea of price. Although it is not a good idea to buy a piano sight unseen, these pianos do get sold, often to someone close by. And you get a good idea of a pianos worth, if a similar one has been sold. Prices can really vary, depending on the need of the seller, the willingness of the buyer, shipping cost, and many other factors, such as wear and tear, refinishing (which doesn't matter to some people), tone and action (which might not matter if you only want furniture), and other things.

I have seen other real Mason Hamlin 'A's go from $8,000 to $14,000, but these are from all eras. I see some people try to get more like $24,000 for once redone from the early 1900s. I think this is ridiculous, as I know someone who bought a new one for this price last year, although perhaps he got a particular good price.

In light of all of that, $19,000 is WAY too much, in my opinion, even for a 7-footer, which I just noticed after posting all this. But do more research, go to www.pianoworld and ask, and maybe you can negotiate yourself a fair price.

New does not automatically equal better. Vintage pianos rebuilt by a premium rebuilder (Faust-Harrison in NY, for example) can often stand toe to toe with any new model, and sometimes, surpass it.

A few years back, the head of marketing for one of the largest Steinway dealers in the US told me his dream piano would be a 20's vintage M&H BB completely rebuilt by a premium rebuilder. This from a guy trying to sell me a new Steinway B! (He assumed I was a Steinway snob and knew nothing about M&H pianos, as I did play it that way during the visit - hehehe).

The other advantage to buying a quality rebuild over new (other than price) is you can get a model that's no longer in production. Two months after my visit to the Steinway dealer, I bought a recently rebuilt (by an Oregon rebuilder) 1925 M&H model AA (6'2', and it is just an exquisite work of art that sings. It's almost 80 years old, and no way would I trade it for a factory new BB.

I agree with much that you say above. If I had more room and could justify the price, I'd own a series one (round tail) S&S model A. The one with the 85 keys and the three bridges. They haven't been made since the 1890s and to me it's still the ultimate piano for anything other than concert stage use. FWIW, I put the M&H A in second place for the same useage.

Toward the end of the time when the Aeolian company owned the M&H name they systematically destroyed the quality and performance of the M&H pianos. M&H made from about 1960 until the purchase of M&H by Falcone (Bernard Greer) were a sorry lot IMHO. I'm talking about the time when M&H was owned by Aeolian and Sohmer. I'm even iffy about the pianos made during the Premier ownership. I've played two from this period. One was great one was not.

In any case, not all of the owners of the M&H name used the same scale design or high quality materials. In particular the original poster said the piano was made between 1981 and 1985 at the very end of the life of Aeolian Piano Company when they were turning out pure crap. I have not seen the piano in question, but I have seen M&H BB's from that era and find them to be suitable for kindling and nothing else. YMMV.

I draw a clear distinction between the current production from M&H (now owned by Piano Disc) and the pianos made between about 1960 and April 1996 (when the Burgett brothers (of PianoDisc fame) took over). The new M&H pianos are great (I own one). The ones made during the Falcone period are also good. The ones made during the Premier ownership are iffy. The ones made during the waning years of the Aeolian ownership are crap. You'd have to pay me to own one.

Just because it say M&H on the fallboard doesn't mean it's a great piano. The new M&H pianos are great. The pre-1938 M&H pianos are great. Those middle years are kinda rocky.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the reintroduction of the M&H model AA that is rumored to occurred at the NAMM show at the end of January 2004. The AA is possibly the best of the moderate sized scale designs. There is also a rumor that M&H is working on a model CC (9' concert grand. I'd like to see Steinway get some competition for the concert stage. That might shake them up enough to actually start improving their quality.

What do you mean?