Pre WWII Russian/Soviet orchestral recordings Questions

What is the earliest orchestral recording using Russian orchestras? Are there any electrical era Leningrad Phil recordings of note? Do acoustic orchestral recordings exist from the Tsarist era?

I was just curious as I've been listening to the recent EMI GCOC set with Mravinsky and was interested in tracing the development of Russian/Soviet orchestra sounds. The eastern European sound in Bruckner is a bit hard to take. I know that many of the brass players were using western made instruments from at least the late 50's, but how do older recordings sound.

<< What is the earliest orchestral recording using Russian orchestras? Are there any electrical era Leningrad Phil recordings of note? Do acoustic orchestral recordings exist from the Tsarist era? >>

Not the Leningrad Phil, but you could try the Rimsky Korsakov Scheherazade with Oskar Fried/Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra. Dante/Lys claim it's from 1928. I'm sure there are some early opera recording options as well. I find that Mravinsky encouraged a particular sound from his brass

Dante got the date right, but it's the Berlin Philharmonic! The same recording was issued on Koch, in Marston's transfer.

There were some orchestral records made in St. Petersburg in the teens for the Gramophone Company; short pieces, Russian repertoire. These were released as by the 'Orchestre Symphonique du Gramophone' with no conductor attribution. I could consult the Arnold discography for more details, when I'm a bit more awake. I don't know of major orchestral works being recorded in the Soviet Union before the mid 30s or so, but then I'm not an expert on Russian records.

So far as I know, the first recordings involving an orchestra were made around 1908-1910, with piano about ten years before that. Others may know better.

I think Mravinsky's first recording with the Leningrad Phil was in 1938 of Shostakovitch Sym 5 shortly after he gave the first performance and shortly after he was appointed to the orchestra. Almost certainly, the orchestra would have recorded before that (I would think). The Russian State Symphony Cinema Orchestra were certainly recording from 1926 or 1927.

I love the Russian sound. If you are talking about brass vibrato it is simply a Russian tradition.......it is a style of playing, not a style of instrument. I can live with Russian Bruckner (although probably the only person who can).

In the same way, the Russian timpani tradition is different from that of the West (and indeed, so far as I know, even the rest of Eastern Europe). Their playing spot is further in than tradition which produces a thick, darker tone (sometimes called 'tubby'?). They are one of the last orchestras in the world to use a hand held triangle with one beater (most players these days suspend the triangle on a stand and use two beaters).

There are wonderful early recordings of Russian artists on 'Singers of Imperial Russia' issued by Pavilion Records in England...piano and orchestra from the very earliest days. They are expensive but if you have a historical interest in the continent or the artists, indispensable.

Kind regards, Alan M. Watkins

percussion section led by Mr Antoshkin, 'honoured artist of Russia' and rightly so! A great player.

Kind regards, Alan M. Watkins

Thanks for the input. I don't mind the vibrato, it's the edge in the sound that bothers me. I don't think that the Leningrad Phil's Bruckner 9th has quite the edge as on the 7th.

I have various Dresden & Czech Phil recordings of Bruckner that are wonderful. I've always wondered how the use of vibrato came about in the East. I've heard pre and post Peter Damm era recordings/performances with the Dresden Staatskapelle where the use of vibrato is not very pronounced. Certainly in the prewar recording of the Mozart 3rd, Max Zimolong doesn't use vibrato like Damm. I don't recall that Stefek's vibrato is as strong as Tyslars is either.

Alan Watkins wrote

'I love the Russian sound. If you are talking about brass vibrato it

I like the Russian sound as well - the vibrato, the harsh edginess at fortissimo, etc. there is a wonderful espressivo from the solo chairs.

it takes some getting used to - same with the Czech PO - marvelous players -

BTW - chalk me up as another who can enjoy Russian Bruckner. I like AB loud and brassy.

I am happy to say that you are not the only one. Mravinsky's recording of the Bruckner 8th is simply fabulous, and much better than his recordings of the 7th and 9th. BTW, Rozhdestvenky's cycle is also very interesting; there's a certain wildness about some of the performances (listen, for example, to the last movements of the 5th and 6th symphony) that I love, and although the Russian brass is very different, I find it very expressive We will be playing his Nullte during this year's Brucknerthon in a couple of weeks.

Ramon Khalona