Question for college professors

Anyone who feels qualified to respond to this thread from a place of experience is more than welcome to reply, but do know that I specifically invited a few folks that I do know qualify based on their self descriptions.

I've decided that the career path that makes the most sense for me is to get a Ph. D. in music, mostly so I can teach it in a university setting. I'm concerned about several issues, and I'd like informed opinions on how to respond to my issues against real life. If you need more information to be able to give me an informed answer, please ask.

MY BACKGROUND IN A NUTSHELL:

Two years of formal piano study.

Whatever music one gets in the public school system

33 years of piano performance, over 20 years professionally.

1,600+ memorized popular repitoire of music from the 1960's forward, as well as some decent jazz standards and klezmer music.

Absolute pitch memory to a great degree.

The ability to listen to a piece of music several times, memorize it, arrange it, and play a piano only version of it in relatively short order

Good college student (3.8 GPA, 140's IQ, Bachelor of Science degree from 1986, presently age 39). Started a masters degree (quit for health reasons that are now permanently resolved), and during my first semester wrote a paper for an academic journal that was published on the first try.

In other words, way beyond the typical person that takes lessons for two years, but lacking in the depth of formal education.

MY DESIRES AND MOTIVATION:

I'd like to teach in a university setting. Although I am a decent performer, I don't think I want to specialize in that field. I'm more interested in arranging and composition, and I believe that I certainly have the piano chops for that. I presently do computer work, but I got there from my experience in corporate education, which is why I know that I like to teach. More specifically, I like to tell folks what to do, and I want them to listen (maybe I should just be a conductor <grin>.

I do want some stability of employment, but feel that I need to go forward in the music field in spite of that. I like to teach, I'm highly interested in music, and putting the two together makes a lot of sense. It is either do this, or find a day job that will leave me time to do my music or involve me in music.

I want to be able to retire at a reasonable age. I don't expect to be rich (but G-d, I won't turn it down .

CONCERNS:

Do I have a prayer of being able to get a job after school?

Do I have a prayer of getting into school?

Does it really matter if I go to a 'good' school?

Even if not, which are the best schools in the country (besides your alma matter)?

I know that Ph. D. psychology students are heavily subsidized. Are there subsidies for music students? Yes, I'm willing to work for the university.

Can you see corallary paths that provide music involvement, reasonably stable employment, and the ability to tell people what to do so they actually choose to listen to me.

If I want to teach music arrangement and/or conducting as my long-term goal, will that get me anywhere?

What questions should I be asking that I'm not informed enough to ask?

Thank you all for your consideration of me reaching my goals.

Well, I went into teaching because I enjoyed explaining things to people...but then discovered that a big part of the job is getting them to want to listen; very few people are as interested in what can explain as I am. A private instructor who fails to excite students is soon out of business. A university instructor who fails to do so ends up with classes full of students who rather not be there...and can make the instructor's life miserable. Yes, a university may provide you a captive audience, but that doesn't mean that the students will listen to you, and it does mean that you will have some students who you would like to get rid of but can't.

In my area of interest, teaching privately wasn't really an option, but in piano music, I would suggest thinking carefully about the pros and cons of university versus private teaching. My piano teacher charges top dollar in the area, is selective in who she teaches, and always has as many students as she can handle; I believe that this is because she not only has something to teach, but she can also motivate her students to want to learn what she has to offer.

Richard E+17.

Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans, U of Illinois, Champaign, Illinois

That's why my invention will be of particular interest to most piano teachers. It is a guillotine blade that mounts on a rack that clips to the front edge of the piano, and operated by a small button that is pressed with the tip of a conductor's baton. It's a motivational tool, and also allows teachers to get rid of students that don't possess the proper equipment for learning piano. (e.g. fingers) <G>

Cheers,

I'm laughing even as it occurs to me I would probably be an early victim.

<G> Me too.... My teacher keeps telling me to slow down. I guess the 'Digit Guillotine' would be a definitive remedy for that little problem. heh...

[snip]

This is the only question I feel competent to answer, since I have little knowledge of the specific business of academic music departments.

I was a graduate student at the University of Michigan in a liberal arts field at a time when the liberal arts were poorly funded. 'Stagflation' took its toll on college funding and when Reagan took office the spending was on defense research ('Star Wars' rather than liberal arts. Although Michigan had a highly respected philosophy department, job place was rather poor. I was surprised when Michigan graduates were passed over in favor of graduates from lesser-respected departments.

One professor explained to me that lower tier schools will often pass over a candidate from a first tier school. The reason is that the last thing the faculty at the lower tier school wants is some hot-shot, whiz-kid know-it-all from some fancy school that will demonstrate to the university administration that the existing faculty is a bunch of do-nothing morons. So the old timers carefully recruit someone who is competent to do the job but not excessively intelligent or ambitious.

Another (somewhat less cynical) professor stated that certain schools habitually recruit the graduates from the same sources (often where the senior faculty studied or a place with a similar tradition in terms of specialties). So even if the market is tight, there will be opportunities if you graduated from a lesser-known school.

The truth probably includes both views to some extent. And certainly a degree from a well-respected school is nice to have. The bottom line is that it is preferable to go to a 'good' school but by no means essential. In fact, it may be better to 'rule in hell rather than serve in heaven.' The top candidate from a lesser school may actually have an easier time than someone in the middle of the pack from a respected school.

* * *

A couple of comments on graduate school in general, FWIW. Go to grad school because of your desire to learn; not for job training. If you have the burning desire for formal music training in composition then try and create the opportunity to go to grad school. If you can land a job in academics when you get out, then that's great, but it's icing on the cake. The real reason to go to school is to learn. I will be the first to admit that this idealistic notion is hard to maintain in our harsh, materialistic culture, especially with the astronomical tuition charged by all schools these days.

Also, a school is what you make of it. Even if you attend a 'lower tier' school, if you have the motivation and discipline to study then you will get a lot out of it. If you go to a top school and coast through by doing the bare minimum, then you will not get much out of it. As an older student, you will probably be more motivated and better disciplined than the 22 year olds that will comprise the bulk of your peers. - - /****************************************************** **************** * Gary M. Letchinger * San Diego, California * Reply to the newsgroup only ******************************************************* ***************/

You might want to go and talk with a few university music profs and get a handle on what they actually do for a living. The indispensible functions of a university professor are research and publishing of same; teaching is a side-effect that supports the research. If you have a burning desire to spend a few years adding to the arguments on how to perform baroque ornaments or on the influence of Goethe on Beethoven then this is the career for you. If you want to teach people how to add a walking bass to Heart and Soul, then it's probably not.

Dear Gary, I'm a Ph.D. advisor for behavioral science programs in a college of business, so my advice may not be relevant to colleges of music. That said, each year I get numerous inquiries from persons like you. They are business practitioners and managers (some with advanced degrees) who want to pursue a Ph.D. Many of them have motives that are the same as yours. They want to teach and work in a university environment. Many are attracted to the cachet of a Ph.D.

I advise them to seriously examine their motives, the investment they will have to make (five years of intensive study and dissertation research with little or no opportunity to save any money), and the incremental advantages they will realize when, and if, they graduate. Ph.D. programs in most fields stress research and prepare students for careers that require publications in major journals. Yes, teaching is a part of the program, but the main emphasis in most programs (some music programs could be exceptions) is on theory development and preparation to conduct research. Persons who pursue such programs with only the goal of teaching find that they're investing a huge amount of time and effort learning things that are irrelevant to their goal. Moreover, many of them don't need a Ph.D. to teach. There are teaching opportunities (adjunct professors, faculty members at community colleges, professional development programs) that do not require a Ph.D. and can be just as rewarding as teaching at a university. With your background, I'm sure you would have no problem finding opportunities to teach and compose.

You say that you want stability of employment. In academics, that comes with tenure. Tenure usually comes after six years of hard work, research and publications, teaching, service. Persons who don't make it are fired and face the possibility of repeating the process at another school, if they can find one that will hire them after they've been denied tenure. Sound romantic?

Gary, I would advise you to sit under a shade tree for awhile and think this whole thing over.

As for having a Ph.D. and teaching at a university, it's very much like being a member of a musical group. You think it's really 'hot' until you become a member. On the other hand, it's an indoor job with no heavy lifting.

Ambrose

Respond only to this group.

If you find this post modestly humorous or totally benign and _still_ want to continue teaching, you are part of the solution. Thanks for your efforts. We need all the good people we can get.

[excellent comments cut to conserve space]

Gary, I responded to your other thread without reading this one. Ambrose is giving you good advice. The Ph.D. is useful if you want to pursue university teaching; otherwise, it has little conceivable benefit. Having lost a close tenure decision at the end of my college teaching career, I found that when I wanted to get into business afterwards the Ph.D. was more a liability than an asset (employers were afraid I'd want to return to teaching - fat chance, that I wouldn't 'fit in,' that I'd be overeducated, and the like).

Yes, you say you want to teach at a university, I'm not overlooking that. But jobs are few and far between. One of the brightest people Ph.D.'s in music I know is working at an uninspiring college and having trouble getting out of there because it's hard to get published. Teaching music privately might be an answer, if you can attract and retain students, but students just don't flock to unknown teachers. You don't say what you're doing now, or if you could afford 4-5 years of graduate study, but if I were you I'd hold onto my day job and incorporate music into my life as best I can - after business hours.

In contrast to animal Ph.D.'s. Will I ever learn to edit.