Stereo and mono issues from separate takes?

I was quite surprised today to find two performances which are almost, but not quite, identical.

One is a Teldec CD: Joseph Keilberth conducting the Hamburg State Philharmonic Orchestra. According to Mike Gray, this was recorded over four days in 1956 (10/26, 10/27, 11/1, 11/3), which would make it the very first stereo 'Eroica.'

The other is an unidentified performance, from Volume 10 of the 'Basic Library of the World's Greatest Music' collection, (c) 1958, Standard Reference Works Publishing Company, Inc. (aka Funk & Wagnalls). It's mono.

At first I thought they were the same performance, but the closer I listened the more it became apparent that they differ in many details, as if they were different takes from the same sessions.

The questions: Does anyone know of other examples? Was this a common occurrence? If so, I suddenly have a few more LPs to track down.

Regards, Eric Grunin

Mark O-T

The Beecham Symphonie Fantastique. Anyone know which of these has just been GROC'd? (They used the mono in the Beecham Edition, I believe.)

Mark O-T

My understanding with regard to that recording (a favorite of mine) is that the stereophonic 'takes' were mostly _ad hoc_ and not originally intended for publication. The first stereophonic LP from that recording (or set of takes, if you will) sounded fearfully unbalanced such as to suggest it was not the same recording as the mono issue at all! Fortunately, the stereo version in BMG/RCA's Rubinstein Edition sounds much better, having more of the muscular heft remembered from the monophonic LP and also a more sensible stereophonic balance.

Among recordings with different takes in their monophonic and stereophonic issues, I should cite the EMI _Lohengrin_ cond. Rudolf Kempe. Back when there were mono and stereo editions of the same recordings available on LPs, I sat down with a friend to compare the two versions of that recording, and that's when I found that there were notable differences in phrasing here and there between the two versions. FWIW, we also found that, particularly with Angel LPs, the first stereophonic editions of recordings previously available only in mono tended to sound distant and have excessive LP surface noise compared to their mono equivalents. The Angel/Karajan _Falstaff_ is a notable example here.

Those were about a year apart, at different sessions entirely.

How about Cantelli's Franck Symphony (for those of us who don't detest that work, anyway), or Rubinstein's Brahms PC #1 with Reiner? Or Shostakovich Symphony #11 with Cluytens?

I'm dredging my memory for an intertesting bit of early (stereo) recording history...

The late Bert Whyte wrote in Audio magazine many years ago about his early experimental stereo tapings, one of which, as I recall, was during the 1952 Mercury sessions with Kubelik and the Chicago Symphony of Pictures at an Exhibition (or Ma Vlast?). Apparently, Mr. Whyte was permitted to set up a second pair of mics and a separate recorder.

Of course, the Mercury mono tapes were and are classic; but I wonder whatever happened to Whyte's 2-track tapes?

John Proffitt

This has been discussed before. It was certainly a commmon practice in the rock and pop domain, and I think there are some known examples in CM as well.

Paul Goldstein

Seems to me this still comes under the remit of the OP's post. (Not realising that two LPs of apparently the same performance were in fact not the same, and could/should both be collected.)

In an earlier thread on this ng, Bill Karzas said that the mono SF was recorded in Nov 1957, with retakes in on 14th May 1958. The stereo being also recorded in 1958, possibly on that same day in May, so they weren't that far apart.

I have only the first CD edition of this recording. I'll check out the cited passage RSN...

Sometime in 1985 the stereo version of the 1955 version of Klemperer's Beethoven 7th was broadcast, from a mid 50s 'stereosonic' tape, by the BBC. The Gramophone magazine was kind enough to publish a letter from me wondering why this recording had never made it to disc and if there was any other unreleased stereo material from the mid to late 50s. This brought a response from EMI in which it was explained that it was quite usual for the stereo takes to be recorded in a separate room from the main control room in which the mono takes were recorded. The studio was controlled from the mono room. As a result, it was a matter of luck as to what was recorded successfully in stereo. Reports elsewhere suggest that, when he was the producer, Walter Legge took little or no interest in the efforts of the stereo recording team.

Shortly afterward my letter was published the stereo version of Beethoven's 7th did appear on LP and, to my surpise, I was sent a 'with compliments' copy of it by EMI.