Thinking of chords

Hi,

Suppose one is playing something in the key of C# minor (enharmonically equivalent to Db minor), but without sheet music so you can't tell if it's really C# minor or Db minor.

If you play a ii-V-i progression, do you think of it as being 'D#m7b5 - G#7 - C#m' or 'Ebm7b5 - Ab7 - Dbm'?

The thing is, when I think of the group of keys that constitute a G#7/Ab7 chord (these are G#/Ab, B#/C, D#/Eb and F#/Gb), my mind immediately goes 'This is an Ab7 chord'. I know how the theory works, but I have a harder time to convince myself that it is also a G#7 chord.

In the same way, I'm more likely to think 'C sharp minor' rather than 'D flat minor' when I play a C#m/Dbm chord. I guess the reason for this is that interpreting the chord as a C#m involves less accidentals than interpreting it as Dbm. The E keys on my piano sure look a lot more like E's than like Fb's!

So when I play the above progression, my silly brain subconsiously tells me that I'm playing 'Ebm7b5 - Ab7 - C#m', and this confuses me because it looks wrong and I get the feeling of playing in several keys simultaneously.

I'd like to get rid of this confusion, so maybe I could

1) try and keep things clear and always be aware of the key and whether I'm playing an Ab7 or G#7, or 2) try and forget about the connection from keys-on-the-keyboard to written chord symbols.

I'm not sure if I can 'unlearn'/'forget' or 'abstract from' this subconsious connection to the written symbols so at the moment I'm more likely to go for the first option, but I'd really like to know how other people 'see' this.

I agree; this is tricky. I'm not sure I can verbalize how I think, but I can say that when forced to write out a chart for a tune like this, I'm usually torn between wanting to be correct and wanting the chart to be easily readable. It's hard to find a balance sometimes. And for a piece that modulates a lot, there may be no internally consistent correct solution - you might *have* to call some chord by the 'wrong' name relative to the preceeding chords in order to get it to work out right for the following chords. Easy example to demonstrate this is a song that simply goes through the entire circle of fifths and returns where it started. If you name everything consistently, when you start with C you go through G D A E B F# C# G# D# A# E# B#. If you wanted to end on C - not a bad idea - you are going to have to pick one of those sharp keys and rename it enharmonically.

Me, too. For some reason, I never think D#, G#, or A#. When I see a chord based on one of those in a chart, I have to mentally translate. Maybe because they are not frequently notated in contemporary music. Seeing E# and B# really throws me for a loop. For some reason, Fb and Cb don't bother me.

I think C# instead of Db only when it is C#mi7 heading to F#. Go figure.

To the original poster: I wouldn't worry too much about which names you think about are proper and correct as long as what you are playing sounds okay.

Al Stevens

One thing I also learned...you can fake out many people and save yourself alot of trouble in the beginning by playing for example an Am instead of an Am7.

To paraphrase the emperor Franz Joseph in Amadeus...

'Too many chords'....

Just my humble opinion....YMMV (your mileage may vary) Jerry

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:45:48 GMT, 'Al Stevens' < This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it >

Is that your right hand? What are you playing with your left? If that's your left hand, I wouldn't call it B7 anything. But that's just me.

It's rarely notated, but why shouldn't we allow it to exist?

Eight flats or seven flats and one double flat, like F flat major.

Well, it's true that if you were writing a whole piece in this key, there would be no reason to write it in that key rather than C# minor. It isn't true to say that Db minor - or Fb major - does not exist. It *does* exist - it just has a particularly horrid key signature and hence is hardly ever used.

jazz).

And the reason we are used to it is that most horn players work from transposed music that effectively substracts two or three flats from the key signature. Bb for us is C to a trumpet or tenor saxophone player; Eb is C to an alto or baritone saxophone player. So horn players have actual technical reasons to prefer flat keys (the simpler the key signature, not only is it easier to play on most horns, but also it tends to be best in tune). The real reason jazz pianists play in flat keys is to appease horn players, but then, as you say, we get to used to it, and end up thinking of Eb as being easier than A through sheer familiarity.

Exactly. If a piece is in, say, Db major, but then wants to modulate to the parallel minor (as would happen in 'You Go To My Head', you'd have this progression.

: > I'm playing a 'B7+(b9)' written as C-D#-G. Very tempting to simplify my : > thinking...it's a Cm, afterall! Dang! I guess in function, following an : > Em, the B might be more common, but can't I also think Em to Cm? : : Is that your right hand? What are you playing with your left? If that's your : left hand, I wouldn't call it B7 anything. But that's just me.

I'm guessing that it's a mistake. I've found an occasional one in Hal Leonard books.

To 'unlearn' this connection i'm playing the ii-V-I or other chord sequences in all keys, and before i'm touching for example the Eb-Chord i decide for myself if i play in Eb or D#. Then i go through the sequence, calling each chordname in my head.

I think its a matter of pratice. If you play alot, if you read many scores with many different keys, you get used to it. And it helps to analyze some scores. Just determinig the functions.

Have fun,

: : > L.H. has three notes, bottom to top: (middle)C, D#, G. : > R.H. has G. : > : > Cm!!! Has chord symbols, and it's called B7+(b9)... : > : > btw, this is in Eleanor Rigby from 'The Beatles for jazz piano.' Arr Steve : > Hill. Pub Hal Leonard. Love it! I'm complaining about that chord name, : but : > the sound is right-on. : : I'm guessing that it's a mistake. I've found an occasional one in Hal : Leonard books. :

There are a few mistakes in this book, but I think this is probably what the arranger had in mind. It's a 'rootless' B7+(b9), the C is the flatted 9, D# the 3rd, G is the +. Quite enharmonic!