Tie Over Chord Marked Staccato

OK this is probably a bit elementary, but I'm relearning the piano after about 25 years away from it. I'm trying to play a piece in which one of the bars consists of a chord marked staccato, tied to the same chord also marked staccato. If the two chords were different, I'd know that the slur meant to play each in connected fashion; however since the two chords are the same, I'm guessing that I need to play both. My confusion comes from the fact that the chords are marked staccato - how can one tie together two chords (or notes for that matter) that are, by marking, to be played sharp and abrupt?

Are you sure it's a 'tie' and not a phrasing notation?

Thanks for the reply. Phrasing notation is the only thing that makes any sense to me, but I was stuck on the tie idea for two reasons: (1) the chords joined by the marking were the same and (2) they were in the same measure. My beginner books all say this is a 'tie.'

Maybe it's time for a teacher...

It's probably what they call a 'grouping,' which can indeed group the same notes. Depending on the accuracy of the copyist, you should be able to tell the difference based on where the ends of the curved lines come near the notes. If they seem to approach the notes near the side, the notation is a tie. If they seem to go over (or under) the notes' heads (is that what you call that?), the notation is a grouping. Another clue, since you're looking at a chord, is how many curved lines are there? If only one, then it's probably a grouping. If there's a separate arc for each note, it's probably a tie, and I don't know why the notes would be staccato. Finally, in the same measure and with the same notes, you usually expect see half notes instead of tied quarter notes, or a dotted quarter instead of a tied quarter and eighth, and so on, which makes me think it's a grouping. There are no hard and fast rules, however, and each copyist has their own style and preferences.

It's unusual, I think, to put staccato notes in a grouping. The stacatto notation tends to separate the notes rather than group them into a phrase.

Of course, every time I think I have it figured out, I find out I really don't know how to read music. Sigh.

Since phrase marks and tie marks look similar, often this kind of notation is used to clear up any ambiguities. The idea is that you play both chords, but probably with the pedal to sustain the sound as you lift your hand to play the next one. (Something we rarely think about is the fact that a note repeating cannot be connected with a physically produced legato - if the composer wants the sounds to be connected, it must be done with the damper pedal). I suspect that the staccato is there not as an indication of a quick, sharp detached sound, but as a visual reminder to lift the hand, rather than to hold it down as a tied note. Greg

It's not a tie, and the dots don't mean 'staccato.' The unambiguous convention is that dots under a slur mean 'detached.' The amount of separation is up to your ear. As for pedal, you may possibly use 'down-up' pedal on each one, but to use the pedal to cover over the gap would negate the composer's instructions.

James Boyk

You've simply forgotten this notation, that's all. You can imagine it as a halfway-house between the staccato dots and the legato slur. It's a convention that dots under a slur

With all due respect, the following statement by Mr. Boyk is not correct. Although slurred repeated notes with a staccato mark may 'sometimes' call for a slight separation, there are many instances of music where the pedal is expressly marked underneath such a slur. I call his attention to the g minor ballade of Chopin. The 1st theme at the moderato is accompanied by repeated notes under a slur, marked staccato, with pedal marks underneath. If these pedal markings at the beginning of the theme are not in his edition (I'm referring to the Padarewski edition), then I beg him to look forward to measure 32, where in every edition I have consulted, there is a pedal marking under the repeated chords, slurred with staccato. Sorry to be so nitpicky, but his statement makes my earlier post look erroneous, and I try to be accurate whenever possible. Greg

. . . and the term for this marking is 'portato.' Check your music dictionary for details.

Actually you can play a repeating note legato by not lifting the key entirely before pressing it down again. At a particular spot in the key release process, the hammers go back but the dampers do not yet engage. It is easier with grands than uprights, and I am not sure if you can do it on all pianos.

That's what a teacher told me about the groups of notes in Debussy's Reverie (eg. measure 51) marked similarly as well.