Whats the truth behind university piano sales?

I went to a college piano sales here in N. California (mostly Kawai piano that's 'barely used by students', with few steinways and other brands). I was a serious buyer, and was told that they offer almost-new pianos are reasonable price. To make the story short I didn't buy one at the end of the day. The experience, however, is noteworthy. I gave the sales rep my price range after he asked me. Then he showed me the pianos in my range. I won't name the models but if the ones I saw were in my price range i might as well buy a new one in the shop. So here are my list of questions: 1) If these pianos were used for education, ie, music students, wouldn't they be 'heavily used' as opposed to 'barely used'? I recall practicing 6 hours a day in my university piano rooms, and so were my friends. 2) Is this just a scam so that people THINK they get a good deal because it's a university sale, and targeting inexperienced clients who don't do their homework? (note: no offense to Kawai brand, I'm referring to all college sales. it just happens to be mostly Kawai during this particular sale).

Anyway, after I set my eyes on a satin ebony Kawai and played it, the sales person refused to tell me the price when I asked for it. He said 'the most important thing is whether you like it. PRICE, is not important.' I had to assure him that I LIKED the piano. He reiterated that price was secondary if I like the piano. I had to tell him that Price IS important. To spare you the boredom, basicaly the conversation went nowhere and he started more and more sound like a car sales man (unrelated comment: I did walk out of that school and decided to use the money to buy a brand new car that same day, the haggling was minimal. I wished to pay $100 above invoice and I got it). My question #3would be, where did they get this kind of piano sales men at the university sales? local dealer? employees of music school? on commission? If this is only an isolated experience, I'd like to know. And any insights of business model (how it works) of college sales would be appreciated. thanks,

BINGO

The premise of college sales is a good one. Unfortunately, it has been prostituted to the point it is in fact, nothing more than a scam.

The salesmen can be from the dealer, but usually most of them are 'hit men' - people who do nothing but move from one college sale to the other, care nothing about you, the college, or the dealer. Once the sale is over Sunday night, they pack up and leave, and they don't have to live with anything they told you. They have their sales pitch down pat.

Here's how it works: A local dealer of whatever brand you saw the most of at the sale gets the school to let him loan them a few pianos. In return, the school agrees to give them access to the alumni mailing list, and let them have a piano sale every so often on the school grounds.

When they have the sale, they pull out the few pianos the school has been using, back up a tractor trailer load of new pianos, run ads in the paper, mail letters to the alumni telling them how they're helping the school, etc. - all with the old 'you can buy one for pennies on the dollar' sales pitch.

The ads in the paper tell you the sale is one day only - Sunday. The truth is, by Sunday the sale has pretty much wound down, because the ad also tells you to call for an appointment. When you call, they tell you how swamped with appointments they are, and that if you want a piano you'd better make that appointment *right now*, for either Thursday, Friday, or Saturday, so you can 'get the best selection, and beat the mob on Sunday'. They also make sure you know that you can buy during your 'appointment'.

The appointment is the scam. They may only have 3 appointments all day, but they'll schedule all 3 of them at the same time so that it looks as busy as they can make it, then play cards the rest of the day. No matter how many appointments they have, they group them together as much as possible so that when you get there it looks like the place is hopping. This is to add pressure, to get you caught up in the frenzy. (go back 2 hours after your appointment - they'll all be sitting around eating pizza.....)

Anyway - the salesman's job is to make you think they don't have enough pianos for all the appointments they have, so if you want one you'd better jump, and the price 'normally is

I have talked to many piano salesmen and several car salesmen in the last few months. With one solitary exception, the piano salesmen have been phony, deceitful, and slimy-friendly almost to the point of becoming a cartoon version of a slippery salesman. The car salesmen have been variable and sometimes bad, but the piano salesmen have been consistently far, far worse. I am amazed how creepy the whole process of piano sales turns out to be. It is right up there with buying time shares or higih volume furniture. I mean bad, real bad. Be very careful, you are almost never dealing with an honest and knowledgeable musician who is trying to help you find the right instrument. If you do find someone like that, buy from them. Maybe the more common slimy version will die and not breed due to lack of sales .

: phony, deceitful, and slimy-friendly almost to the point of becoming a : cartoon version of a slippery salesman. The car salesmen have been variable : and sometimes bad, but the piano salesmen have been consistently far, far : worse. I am amazed how creepy the whole process of piano sales turns out to : be. It is right up there with buying time shares or higih volume furniture. : I mean bad, real bad. Be very careful, you are almost never dealing with an : honest and knowledgeable musician who is trying to help you find the right : instrument. If you do find someone like that, buy from them. Maybe the more : common slimy version will die and not breed due to lack of sales . :

What about buying a grand piano online? Or, at least go somewhere to compare prices?

David 'I need too much bicycle stuff right now to even consider a new piano'

online if you are absolutely certain the dealer has untarnished reputation. I wouldn't buy anything fancy, but mass-produced pianos like Yamaha and Kawai have been very consistent from piano to piano, so if you know how the model you want sounds, it is not a big risk because of the quality control at the Japanese factories. On the other hand, if you provide your local dealer with the name of on-line dealer and his price, often the local dealer will want to match that price if the on-line dealer is respectable. For the most part owners of music store know other competitors inside and out. Good luck.

Me too. Fellow bike/piano nut. Two years ago my rebuilt grand piano and new custom bike frame arrived within the same 30-day period. Talk about heaven!

Larry's response was pretty much dead on. I will add this - there are a few 'gem' dealers left that will pretty much give you the straight scoop. I worked for a guy who has a 'hand in the camera' business philosophy. He won't do something that would make him want to put his hand in the camera. He ran a pretty straight up school sale. Yes they trucked in pianos, but they also gave pretty good deals on the pianos that were at the school. You got a little better deal on inventory than you would get in the store, but only a few hundred bucks generally. He's not the cheapest piano store in town, but he runs an ethical and straight-up shop. Unfortunately he's the exception. I worked enough University sales (and armory sales and convention center sales and symphony sales, blah blah blah) to know what the general dealer attitude is - Sell as many pianos as possible for as much as you can get no matter what the venue.

I could never understand the inherent contradiction in university sales, with respect to selling pianos that they have used. If a university can wear out a brand new piano after a year or two, (a) why would I choose a brand that wears out so quickly, and (b) why would I purchase a worn out piano at any price? It seems they really dilute the brand's image (whatever the brand).

Here's how it was once explained to me by a close friend who was also a piano dealer. Larry can correct me if it's wrong.

There's a hidden suggestion, which the buyer is supposed to assume. The sellers don't outright state it because it is false (at least they don't say it in writing). The suggestion is that the school is selling something that was donated to them in order to raise money. You are the benefactor of their need by getting a good piano at a discount. The school benefits by getting your money. The dealer benefits by taking a commission. Afterwards someone donates replacement pianos and takes a tax break. Win, win, win, win. All phony, of course.

Al Stevens

<< There's a hidden suggestion, which the buyer is supposed to assume. The sellers don't outright state it because it is false (at least they don't say it in writing). The suggestion is that the school is selling something that was donated to them in order to raise money. You are the benefactor of their need by getting a good piano at a discount. The school benefits by getting your money. The dealer benefits by taking a commission. Afterwards someone donates replacement pianos and takes a tax break. Win, win, win, win. All phony, of course. >>

Greetings, True, in all 'sales' I have seen. The bottom line is that schools get the use of some new pianos for a short time in exchange for lending their credibility to a shill program for the dealer. For some schools, it is very helpful, but for buyers, it is a gimmick. Anytime someone is selling a 'lifetime' purchase with a high-pressure sales pitch, go elsewhere. Regards, Ed Foote RPT http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote CD's at Gasparo.com. GSCD #332, 'Beethoven In the Temperaments' GSCD #344 . 'Six Degrees of Tonality' Caution, these CD's contain pure intervals and extensive liner notes!