Yamaha P90 vs Clavinova

If I am looking for the closest thing to an acoustic piano, is there any difference between a P90 and a Clavinova as far as the keyboard touch and the piano sound? I am a little confused by graded hammer effect and weighted keyboard and stereo sampling and dynamic stereo sampling. Any guidance would be appreciated. Randy M. This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it

There is more than one model of Clavinova, so it's probably impossible to answer this question in general. But it is a general truism that when buying something like a Clavinova, with a piano-like cabinet, built-in speakers, and miscellaneous bells & whistles, you are definitely paying for those extras. The P90 is $1000 (or whatever price you are seeing it at) of piano emulation. A $1000 Clavinova - if there is such a thing - is $600 worth of piano emulation packed into a $400 box, and clearly would not be as good in terms of touch and sound as the P90. On the other hand, a $3000 Clavinova maybe be $2000 worth of piano emulation packed into a $1000 case, in which case, it might well be an improvement over the P90. However, in my experience, Yamaha doesn't normally put much into their Clavinovas in terms of basic feel and sound above and beyond what they put into their best portable keyboards like the P90 - it usually is just bells & whistles.

Graded hammer - means that the keys on the low notes feel 'heavier' than those on the high notes, supposedly emulating how real pianos are because of the construction of the hammers. Personally, I am unconvinced as to how important this is.

Weighted keyboard - means that the keys feel 'heavy' compared to, well, unweighted keyboards. The idea is to emulate a real piano key pushing a real hammer, as opposed to just a key with a sring underneath it. This is absolutely crucial; anything that calls itself a digital piano without this feature is just a toy.

Stereo sampling - means the instrument sampled was recorded in stereo as opposed to mono. In practice, the difference is mostly that low notes will seem to come from the left speaker and high notes from the right (as you sit at the keyboard), just as on a real piano. I'm unconvinced as to the importance of this as well, mostly because I never really experience the stereo sampling because I'm playing through a mono PA system the vast majority of the time, but those who use it seem to find it nice.

Dynamic stereo sampling - during sampling, each note was recorded at several different dynamic levels, to capture the difference in the *quality* of the sound of a note struck quietly versus one struck more forcefully. As opposed to simply recording the note once then turning the volume up or down depending on how hard you strike the key on the digital. Definitely a good feature.

Thanks so much for your reply. You make a good point about paying a lot for 'cabinet' with the Clavinovas. And the multi-level stereo sampling should make a big difference. I guess my main question about keyboard feel is this. In browsing Yamaha's site for specifications on the P90, 120, etc, and for the Clavinovas, the P series mention a graded hammer effect keyboard (heavier on bass, lighter on treble) as do the Clavinovas. But the Clavinovas mention a 'weighted' keyboard and the P's do not. Has anyone played both and noticed a difference?

Both would absolutely have werighted keys - if they didn't say so explicitly on the Clavinova, it's simply because it's taken for granted. 'Graded' hammer means gradation in the weighting; you can't grade an unweighted keyboard.

I'm a beginner that will soon be in the market to upgrade to something like this too. I think a P120 would be absolutely fantastic for me, I dont need or want the furniture. However none of these P and CLP models have the 'accompiment' features (styles, etc) that are always included in low-end keyboards or the top-end CVP models. I assume additional voices are required (drums, etc), but even those models with XG voices dont include styles as such (P250, S90, CLP, etc). Since all $150 to $300 keyboards find it easy to include this, I dont comprehend why it is omitted for ALL other Yahama high end models? Some maybe, but all? It couldnt have been added to the P250? Is it not useful?

I am trying to establish the value to me of such missing accompiment or styles features. Are these features actually used much? I understand a stage musician may not be interested, but I'll be exclusively in a playing-pop-music-solo-for-my-own-amusement environment, which would seem the best application for such features, at least at times.

However in my current low end DGX202 keyboard, other than simple drum tracks (styles), all other accompiment pretty much automatically plays chords in the left hand, in other than piano voices. It has various modes, but all at least greatly embellish any played chords in other than a piano voice there. My own left hand piano is virutally silent. I assume CVP is very similar? The 202 does have a few Piano styles that do play in piano voice, but it still totally interferes with actually playing a left hand part myself.

I'm not sure what I expected, but somehow this isnt it. My complaint is that total substitution, instead of a play-along environment. This does seem fine and wonderful for someone that cant/wont play the lefthand part, but if intending to do so, then it gets in the way. So I am concluding that it is not much loss in the P or CLP models?

Probably most of the problem is my own lack of understanding of what constitutes accompiment, and I may not even be able to ask the question, but if any clarifying comments (about how such accompiment features are used) are possible, it would be appreciated.

I think you are confusing synthesizers (aka keyboards) with digital pianos. The digital pianos are for people playing piano. And that means you play the accompaniments yourself.

A strong exception is the CVP Clavinovas, which seem to be the ultimate in digital pianos, and they all offer styles. I think they sell very well too. But otherwise, it does appear that the combination of weighted keys and styles is totally incompatible in the Yamaha line. I'm just questioning why that is?

The CVP is an expensive choice, about $2000 to $9000 I think, and all that heavy furniture is an issue too. Styles however must be an inexpensive option since all the $100 to $300 keyboards provide styles. So it seems very odd that there isnt at least one P model offering the same accompiment styles as the cheap keyboards. There is no shortage of different models, so why not that one? If it existed, it would be at the top of my list whether I actually wanted to use the sytles or not. The only answer seems to be in other brands than Yamaha. That seems a very odd marketing decision.

I'm not sure I need styles, considering how the accompiment actually works, operated by the left hand, but overriding the left hand piano part. Unless there's more to it, then I'm wondering how desirable styles really are in practice. I think your point applies to that area, and I think I agree. Yet it seems essential for keyboards, so maybe we're wrong.

I guess bottom line is that I'm miffed about not having the opportunity to buy the combination that I think I want (Yamaha portable with weighted keys and styles), and yet I'm not convinced it would be all that useful either. <g> However if it existed, I'd already have bought one.

This probably answer your question

You are supposed to be playing the accompaniment yourself if you are playing piano. If you are using the accompaniment function on your digital, you are playing keyboard. I probably didn't explain my post clear enough.

Also, look at this posting http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8& oe=UTF-8&selm=8alj...

To a pianist, style and accomponiment functions are absolutely useless. You learn to use both hands from day one. If you are going to be playing classical music, the accompaniments are written out. And for jazz/pop, you play according to chords given. And I think even a beginning jazz student will do block chords with their left hand. I've seen books that says learn piano in 10 days and they get you to do left hand triads. So it must be easy to do even for a absolute beginner.

Think about what you really want. If you want both a keyboard and a piano, maybe the CVP is a good choice. But then a P90 + a synth might be better and cheaper choice.

Perhaps I can elucidate a bit. The 'styles' are normally supplied on the toy keyboards for a few hundred dollars or even less. They are marketed to the non-playing public. There are a few home type digital pianos that also have this function. The Roland KR series for instance. No performing type keyboards have this feature. I guess the explanation is that there are three types of keyboards. The toy group, the home group, and the performing group. If you want to play with one of the style things, by all means buy one. They are dirt cheap. Yamaha has something called the 'Porta Grand' or something like that that looks real good for a few hundred dollars.